FRENCH SEVEN YEARS’ WAR HEAVY CAVALRY BREASTPLATES

FRENCH SEVEN YEARS’ WAR HEAVY CAVALRY BREASTPLATES
Misconception or Reality?

Courtesy of Seven Years’ War Association Journal Volume XIV #4 - Winter 2008/2009
Bill Protz

There has been thinking that French heavy cavalry did not wear breastplates at times or at all during the SYW. In my case, this goes back through decades of dimly recalled memories reminding me of three things. First, officers refused to wear them out of a sense of misplaced bravery/honor. Second, the piece was thrown away because it was too heavy or uncomfortable. Third, many uniform illustrations don’t show them. Are these misconceptions or realities?
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Lieutenant General Sir Reginald Savory, His Britannic Majesty’s Army In Germany During The Seven Years War

At the battle of Hastenbeck, “The gallant Chevert led his [infantry] men forward, wearing his ‘cordon-rouge’ and without his cuirasse. When pressed to don his cuirasse, he replied, pointing to his men, ‘Have these brave fellows got any?’ Page 32.
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Lee Kennett, The French Armies In The Seven Years’ War. Duke University Press, 1971.

“…the Count of Gisors, received a mortal would leading a charge at Krefeldt; had he been wearing the cuirasse, it would probably have saved his life.” Page 70.

“Cavalry officers were to wear the complete breastplate [front and back], though as has been seen, the custom was more honored in the breach than in the observation.” Page 117. Kennett is perhaps referring to the death of the Count of Gisors here. The regulation comes from the Ordonnance du Roi concernant l’armement des officers et des sergeans des companies de fusiliers du 31 octobre 1758.

“The practice may have been dictated as much by comfort as vanity. The physician Colombier said the cuirasse or breastplate was too heavy and troubled the respiration and constricted the shoulders and neck.” Page 117. From Code I, page 131.

”Regulations stipulated that cavalrymen …were to wear as defensive armor a half-breastplate or plastron, and an iron skull cap inside their hats.” Page 117. From Sautai and Desbrère’s on pp. 13-15 of Cavalerie.
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Liliane and Fred Funcken, The Lace Wars Part 2. Ward Lock Limited, 1977.

“The breastplate alone was in theory worn by all cavalry regiments, but there was little enthusiasm for it, and it was often left off, contrary to regulations.” Page 22.

René Chartrand, Louis XV’s Army (I) Cavalry & Dragoons. Osprey Publishing, 1996.

“All troopers were also equipped with a steel breast-plate painted black, but this bulky item was unpopular and not often worn, even in wartime.” Page 13.
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Lucien Mouillard, THE FRENCH ARMY OF LOUIS XV. G.F. Nafziger translated the 1882 work in 2004.

“The armament and equipment of the cavalry trooper was excellent in the time of Louis XIV, but did not change after that, and consisted of: The iron breastplate, fastened at the back with leather straps, that crossed on the back. Only the Cuirassier Regiment wore a double breastplate [front and back]. The officers carried … a double cuirass.” Pages 71-72.

Writing about the Gendarmes, “The plastron of the cuirass was of bronzed iron, lined with linen padding, trimmed with crimson silk, fixed at the shoulders with red leather suspenders with buckles and hooks of bronzed iron,” Page 101.

Mouillard’s original artwork depicting French heavy cavalry from 1737-1762 all wear the breastplate with the exception of the Cuirassiers du Roi wearing the front and back cuirass. The breastplate is not depicted on the Gendarmes or Guard cavalry perhaps to show details of the outer coat.

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Lucien Rousselot Reference Sources cited in Part 10 of R. D. Pengel’s and G. R. Hurt’s FRENCH CAVALRY & DRAGOONS 1740-1762. 1981.

“When wearing [the buff vest for practice exercises but not in action] the officers wore cuirasses and the other ranks black plastrons. The plastron was often worn by officers and other ranks under the coat in action. The cuirass was bordered in red lace with yellow metal fittings. Unlike the Prussian style it had a back protection also.” This citation appears to the left of the plate RG1 about half way through this booklet. Several sketches appear of the breastplate.
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Christopher Duffy, PRUSSIA’S GLORY. The Emperor’s Press, 2003.

In the aftermath of the Prussian victory at Rossbach Duffy remarks, “It took several days to clear the wreckage from the battlefield and the neighborhood…’The roads were littered with French cuirasses, great riding boots which had been thrown away…. and with lost hats. The sunken road by Markwerben was full of hacked-about Frenchmen.” Page 85.
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Christian Rogge on the SYW yahoo egroup on October 17, 2007 wrote:

Having done a bit of closer research on 7YW French vs. Allies campaigns, I would forward (my personal) conclusion based on the below:

A) We/I know of accounts of French cav. wearing breastplates at [1757] Rossbach and 1758
Lutterberg. The first because of the recorded abandoned cuirasses during the rout (see
Duffy), the latter because existing records of Hanoverian infantry at Lutterberg deliberately aiming at the horses on the French cav. charges for the French were in armour. The charges of the 6 esc. Dauphin brigade identified here – not that of the Cuirassiers [du Roi] !!! (see French language, but Hanoverian origin relation publ. in Westphalen). To my knowledge, no such records exist for Minden or Krefeld, to name the two other most famous engagements. That doesn't say NO armour was worn on these occasions.

B) The wearing of cuirasses was 7YW regulation - especially in battle!

C) It wasn't popular - so, (I say) - avoided with the marches - i.e. usual everyday service.
Armour [was] conventionally kept with the regimental baggage - somewhere behind during
the march periods.

D) Idea of no armour for French cav. is based mainly on uniform illustrations of French cavalry without cuirasse/plastron. Most are based on 18th c. contemporary material most often illustrating uniforms without cuirasses, because you would not see much of the uniform distinctions with the cuirasse.

Conclusion: French did wear armour in deliberately planned or expected engagements, but
might have not done so at unexpected combats, such as Korbach or Warburg, or of the more operational then pitched encounters like Gruenberg or Nauheim, which really happened to make up for most of the engagements during this war in this part of the world.
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Ingo Beringer on the Lace Wars yahoo egroup on July 26, 2006 wrote:

At the battle of Crefeld Hessian light troops on foot were interspersed in the first line of the attacking Allied wing. When the heavy cavalry of the French were attacking, the Hessians were ordered to aim at the horses instead of the riders as the cuirassiers wore breastplates, which would have made them invulnerable. The Hessians did as they were told, with cruel effect. Source: the report of a sergeant named George Bess who took part in the fight

More information from Ingo in an email: (George Beß). „Aus dem Tagebuch eines Veteranen des Siebenjährigen Krieges. Mitgetheilt durch den Obersten z.D. Wilhelm Beß." Zeitschrift des Vereins für hessische Geschichte und Landeskunde, N.F., Band 2, S. 193–241. - (My) translation: From the Diary of a Veteran of the Seven Years' War. Communicated by Colonel (in active service) Wilhelm Bess. Journal of the Society for Hessian History and Geography, new series, vol. 2, pp 193 to 241. (The name of George Bess is not given in the title of the paper). - It is a most interesting paper excerpting from the original papers of George Bess who was a subject of the Landgraf of Hessen-Kassel. He lived from 1734 to 1810. He was a hunter by occupation. Shortly after the start of his career he was (more or less forcefully) recruited for a Jäger company. I suppose you know that Jäger is the word for the civil trade of a hunter as well as the military troop type. George had such a positive record in his activities that he was promoted to Corporal in the first year of his service, then Sergeant in the following year, and Sergeant Major in the year after. He took part in three battles and was wounded five times. After the war he was granted a senior employment in the Landgraf's forestry service, in recognition of his merits. Colonel Wilhelm Bess was the author's grandson. (As a quite irrelevant note: GEORGE was at that time pronounced Schorsch (or English: shorsh), not Georg (English: gay-org) as today).
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Ingo Beringer on the SYW yahoo egroup on October 18, 2007 wrote:

As for Minden I clearly remember having read about French breastplates in the context of battlefield findings in one of the commemorative books of the 1959 anniversary though I forgot the exact place.
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CONCLUDING COMMENTS AND PROBLEMS:

1. Regulations ordered heavy cavalry troopers to wear frontal armor breastplates called plastrons.

2. The same regulations ordered officers to wear front and back armor.

3. Wearing armor was unpopular for some due to weight, breathing issues and encumbrance.

4. Some officers flouted the regulation due to vanity.

5. Every heavy regiment was issued with armor.

6. Armor was thrown away in the rout following the defeat at Rossbach. To get away easier?

7. Is the Rossbach anecdote the genesis of the idée-fixe that the French threw away their armor?

8. A lot of artwork does not show armor so uniforms are not obscured.

9. Thus miniatures designers have not crafted SYW French heavy cavalry in plastrons. Nor do we find officers with front and back armor except for the Cuirassier du Roi Regiment. This total absence is unjustifiable. My familiarity is with 25mm-30mms only.

10. Those unaccustomed to research, lacking resources, trusting rules writers as their sole source of information and also trusting manufacturers may think there was no armor worn.

11. There is a philosophy afoot these days that if a wargame miniature does not have something on the casting, it cannot have it in a wargame. In view of Items #s 8 and 9, this is wrong.

12. There is a difference between disliking armor and wearing it anyway, especially in battle.

13. What percentage of troopers and officers did not wear their armor?

14. What percentage wore armor?

15. Per Table 3 of Kennett, The Army of the Lower Rhine on 17 June 1758 shows:

83 squadrons of heavy horse presumably wearing breastplates. (70.9% of all cavalry)

10 squadrons of hussars without armor. (8.5% of all cavalry)

24 squadrons of dragoons without armor. (20.5% of all cavalry)

117 squadrons total

16. Are the percentages of Item #15 viable? Yes and no. Hussars and dragoons were normally not present on main battlefields. They were usually on the flanks but more usually miles away guarding lines of communications, scouting, screening, protecting supplies, blocking, foraging, marauding and so forth. Thus in a large main battle, the percentage of breastplated horse would be much higher than 70.9%. However, at smaller affairs the story would be very different. The heavies might be a small minority if not absent altogether.

SYNTHESIS

{a} The French Cuirassiers du Roi Regiment wore front and back armor on top of their coats.

{b} Other French heavy regiments were supposed to wear breastplates (plastrons) under outer coats but on top of waistcoats. They did this unless in a surprise engagement.

{c} Officers at the regimental level and above were supposed to wear front and back armor. Some did not.

(d) Ask wargame miniatures manufacturers to provide French heavy cavalry wearing plastrons under the outer coat and officers wearing front and back armor if they do not now do so.

Mollwitz Right Flank at SYWA Assn. 27th Weekend

Situation: 27th Seven Years' War Assn. Annual Weekend
Date: March 26-27, 2010
Location: South Bend, Indiana USA, Ramada Inn Downtown
Topic: Right Flank of Jim/Der Alte Fritz's Leuthen Game
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Why the right flank? That's where yours truly was posted commanding his Saxon Rutowski Chevauleger Regiment under wing commander Brent Olson. I also judged this sector of the game. Jim (Der Alte Fritz) took more photos of the entire battle for his blog which will hopefully appear in due course. Consider this just a brief movie trailer, if you please until these appear. Kindly click on images to make them fill your screens. And now....

The snowy right flank at Leuthen. Austrian kürassiers approach Prussian dragoons.

That's Tom Miller patiently awaiting the Austrian onslaught.

The foes collide! Can your hear/imagine the collision?

Both sides won and lost several rounds of combat with the Prussians gaining advantages and pushing back the Austrians until the Rutowski Chevaulegers and more küassiers reinforce and in turn force the Prussians back. (Not shown.)

The Austrian and Saxon cavalry was forced to withdraw off screen to the left, onto a back table and afterwards through the wall of the room by these Prussian Infantry Battalions. There was no way to hold ground against these steady blue coats.

Here you see the town of Leuthen left of the Austrian and Saxon cavalry. In a few turns in spite of heroic defensive fire and the inability of the Prussian Garde to knock down the gate to Leuthen Church, yours truly ordered the withdrawal of all allied forces onto the back table. A clear Prussian victory. We don't get many draws using Batailles de l'Ancien Régime rules (BAR for short).

The next day I took one photo of our experienced game-master Der Alte Fritz on the left flank at Mollwitz. He presided over two excellent what if scenarios, (Leuthen and Mollwitz) featuring a lot of back and forth action, suspense, heroics, fun, laughter and gorgeous miniatures ensembled on captivating winter terrain from his collection. No glum faces in these two games and 5-6 people played in both games. 

 

The scenario guru, Der Alte Fritz!

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Closing Remarks

1. I would appreciate all the players in the two BAR games making comments below. Let's talk to keep the fun and memories going!

2. Others too.

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Seven Years' War Assn. Fun Weekend Imminent!

2010 Seven Years' War Association Convention Guest Speaker: Dennis Showalter

The SYWA is honored to announce Colorado College History Professor Dennis Showalter as your guest speaker for the 27th annual convention. He has written extensively about the wars of Frederick the Great and 19th through 20th Century German military and political history. He is a former President of the Society of Military History and a visiting professor at the Air Force Academy and the United States Military Academy and he has taught at the Marine Corps University. On Saturday evening, he will speak about The Seven Years' War. Bring your copy of The Wars of Frederick the Great to be autographed.

The SYW Convention will be held March 26th and 27th., 2010 in South Bend Indiana at the Ramada Plaza Hotel (Formerly Holiday Inn Downtown, South Bend)

SCHLACHT BEI WINTERFELDT

Date: 23 January 1760/2010

Location: Winterfeldt East Prussia

Situation: "Russians In The Snow Offensive"

Winter Terrain: From the collection of Der Alte Fritz
For larger images: Click on them

Sleepy Winterfeldt the night before the battle.

The road into Winterfeldt.

Russian Left flank. Peaceful winter wonderland. All images from here to the end of our photo story were kindly provided by Michael Mathews. Michael commanded the Russian left flank.

Russian Right Flank: The bridge over the stream.

Russian Left Flank. Prussians occupy Winterfeldt.

Russian Left Flank. More Prussians. Note Prussian guns shielded and well-sited by a portion of the village.

Russian Left Flank. Converged grenadiers assault Winterfeldt. Von Kleist's irregular infantry will yield their position after hand-to-hand combat. The Russians flow into the vacuum; "the high water mark," umm, snow line, of the Russians here.

Russian Left Flank. Russian cavalry assembles to attack to the right of Winterfeldt.

Russian Left Flank. Later the same cavalry has expectations of breaking through! However, they are diverted to their left because of trouble in the next two images.

Russian Left Flank. Within a few turns the same grenadiers charged the Prussian battery wiping out one crew and causing the other to evade. See center right. More Prussians appear, give fire and the grenadiers abandon the compound due to a morale failure. (Under 50% and disorganized)

Russian Left Flank. A Russian howitzer started fires which eventually spread into more than half of Winterfeldt. Za counterattacking Prussians march through the smoke and flames.

Russian Left Flank. Russian guns commence a withdrawal from bombardment positions. The left flank is no longer tenable.

Russian Left Center. From the Russian perspective we are to the right of Winterfeldt. Note snowy redoubt held by the Prussians. See left center of image.

Russian Left Center. Lots of guns Tovarich! The Russkis advance. The redoubt is in the upper right of the image. Winterfeldt is far to the left.

Russian Left Center. It looked like the Russians would punch through.

Russian Center: The redoubt is taken by the Russians in the upper left while the attack continues to the right of the fortification.

Russian Right Center back Table. Russian cavalry assembles here prior to Turn 1.

Russian Right Center. Prussians commence a massive attack against numerically weaker opposition.

Russian Right Center. Uh oh!

Russian Right Center. A huge cavalry melee erupted here. More Russians will add in from the right of the image to try to stem the Prussian tidal wave. They would not do so. It is only fate Vladimir. Do you want to live forever?

Russian Right Flank. Prussians to the right of the idyllic bridge image seen near the top of our story.

Russian Far Far Far Right Flank. Here too the Russians would be pushed back. More vodka, if you please.
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Closing Remarks:

•  See Der Alte Fritz's blog for more images, considerable commentary and for the rest of the story. 
• Every Russian unit shown was raised in the past two years, mostly in 2009.
• Comments welcome below.

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Open Column Of Companies Forms To The Right

A second vignette adapted from Paddy Griffiths, French Napoleonic Infantry Tactics 1792-1815. (Osprey Elite Series Booklet #159) Paddy's remarks and diagrams were adapted from the 1791 Réglement concernant l'exercice et les manoeuvres de l'infanterie as follows: (Click on photos so each fills your screen.)
Date: 1792
Situation: Trouble approaching the right flank through a defile.

Two mounted squadrons of 1st Hussars (formerly Bercheney from my SYW l'Ancien Régime Army) while a third is dismounted firing carbines at a foe coming through the defile. An officer rides in earnest to the rear to report what is seen.

He reports to the Chef de Batallion.

They converse. The battalion is in open column of companies. (See remarks below)

The battalion will quarter wheel (ninety degrees) by company to the right and form line.

The Colonel and his drums post themselves at what will be the center rear of the new formation.

"BATALLION! --- PAR COMPAGNIE. CARTE CONVERSION A DROITE."

The drums immediately commence beating this order for all to hear while officers and NCOs in the rear make sure the command is understood and instantly obeyed.

Each company wheels simultaneously. We are mid-way through the wheel.

Finished and ready to face the threat.

En avant mes amis. Bon chance!

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Closing Remarks

1. Eight companies were common for 1791-1808 French line battalions. The Grenadiers are absent - again.

2. The eight companies were merged from two battalions in my collection for this vignette.

3. One of the special things we can all consider doing is moving each company as shown.

4. Never mind lifting and plopping them down. Instead, march them to their next position using your movement rates. It might take more or less than one turn. You might even need time to adjust left and right, etc. just like they really did. Are your movement rates sufficient?

5. Practice privately before game day to get intervals just right. Get your lads onto a quiet drill field to train them -- and you.

6. The battalion started in an open column of companies. The interval between each company front to back was measured so the quarter wheel occurs without bumping and creating an entangled muddle. The above does not seem to visually simulate the larger interval actually used. This is because the depth of miniatures is far greater than in history. I used a 1" interval.

7. At the start of the wheel (pivot) hold down the upper right-hand corner of each movement tray while wheeling the same tray in a clockwise manner with your other hand. It was not perfect but was close enough. At first my intervals were almost 3". Nope. After wheeling about five times and changing the interval, a 1" gap worked best. It will be different for you. This is why practice is needed.

8. Start at the top. It is best to wheel all companies half way first. When all are half way through their wheel, go back to the top and finish the last half of the march. A two-step process.

9. If the battalion was "closed", meaning in our case, with all trays touching front to back, this formation change is impossible.

10. A new kind of fun. Different and satisfying.

11. You CAN do this with your collection -- as is. Let us know how things turn out.

12. The nice thing about the French Bercheney Hussars of the Seven Years' War is that their 1791 uniform is similar to that worn in the SYW. All I did was switch out the SYW flags for GMB Napoleonic 1804 flags. Lucky me.

13. Comments welcome immediately below.

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Game Cancelled! So Instead....

December 26th. was supposed to be a game day with our new 1806ish Napoleonics at the home of Der Alte Fritz. Several weather and health issues regrettably discombobulated all of us. Hopefully Der Alte will reschedule soon.

In preparation for the game I read portions of Paddy Griffiths, French Napoleonic Infantry Tactics 1792-1815. (Osprey Elite Series Booklet #159) In order to do something Napoleonic tonight I returned to Paddy's remarks and diagrams from the 1791 Réglement concernant l'exercice et les manoeuvres de l'infanterie as follows:    (Click on photos so each fills your screen.)

From 1791 to 1808, battalions consisted of nine companies. One was grenadier; usually absent. Above are eight center companies in a three rank line with centered battalion flag and NCO guards. Behind and also centered are all the drummers with the battalion commander. Two officers and two NCOs  form a fourth rank to help keep the men in line and in order.

The battalion from a different angle. Four converged grenadier companies are in support on the left flank.

A closer look at the grenadiers. Each company  was stripped away from its parent battalion for a special service needing higher quality soldats.

Back to the line battalion again. "En Avant mes amis!"

It's 1792, here anyway. A Prussian battalion tops the distant rise.

Qui sont-ils? Who are they?

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Closing Remarks:

1. Our French battalions are not sized as shown. I merged eight center companies from two battalions to form one battalion from the 1791 regulation.

2. The next installment will show a 1791 battalion column.

3. Miniatures are 25mm Dixons with some Old Glory command personnel too. I really like the design of the leaning mounted officer.

4. French painted by Reinforcements By Post.

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BATTLE OF BRITTLESTADT

5 December 1759/2009 viewed from the French side.
Click on images to enjoy them in full color and wide screen.


Left Flank: The ultimate goal of the French flanking force was the Pegasus Bridge. A piquet of soldiers stealthily walked within the woods beside the Brittlebach and waited for their moment to rush the bridge. Only one third of the force arrived before Turn 1. The rest straggled behind in the woods arriving later.


Left Flank: In quieter moments days before the battle, The Pegasus Bridge guard is apparently asleep or unconcerned in nearby tents whilst a larger camp farther away also appears too quiet. Subsequent French reconnaissance revealed a sleepy and mostly inert von Kleist Freikorps posted there with the mission to guard this bridgehead east of the Brittlebach.


Left Flank: On 5 December the French Legion de Fischer supported by the celebrated Bercheney Hussars and by the Jacobite emigre battalion Albanie hurled themselves onto the bridgehead. They ignored a piquet of Doubleblues posted as a tripwire along a tributary of the Brittlebach (foreground). The bridge is to the right of the supply wagon in the upper right corner of the photograph. Unseen there in cover was a piquet of Albanie (24) that infiltrated secretly to the bridge, later attacked and captured it from the bridge guard.


Center Left Side: Beyond the Brittlebach (off screen left of the photo) and the Brittlebach Ridge, we view the main French Army arriving to assault the town of Brittlestadt. In the foreground a Russian battalion marches forward supported to its right by Swiss. A battalion of French Converged Grenadiers is to their rear. In the distance we go to the....


Center Right Side: There is mischief afoot. The Saxon von Brühl Dragoons (4 squadrons) are boiling into the defile to take the Prussians in the western zone in the flank. The redcoats are a second battalion of Swiss while blue coats are two battalions of Grenadiers de France. This will be a serious threat!

Center Right Side: Close up of The Defile!

Right Flank: The plain below the Protzen Heights. A stately affair here.

Right Flank Right Side: On the Protzen Heights the dreaded Black Hussars have somehow arrived at the top and are bent on mischief.

Left Flank: At a mid-point Battlegames Teaser #1 was being read.

Left Flank: The French have advanced as far as the woods and are going to turn right toward the bridge. This force was on a side table. See previous post for photos of the side table.

Left Flank: Meanwhile at Pegasus Bridge , our glider, err, I mean, Albanie Piquet (far side) is being counter attacked by enraged von Kleist light troops. The cart is full of explosives to blow the bridge but the Albanies dispatched a section of Prussian engineers that had been setting charges. Result? The Albanies were routed and the Prussians were able to retreat across the bridge. Where is Lovat when needed?

Center Left Side: Very late in the battle. Not much left for either force contesting the center.

Center Far Right Side: In The Defile the Prussians turned the tables on the French and beat them back.

Right Flank: Each side has now pulled back to rest. But the Prussians (upper left) would soon advance.

Far Right Flank: Atop The Protzen Heights, the French have pushed back the Black Hussars.

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Closing Remarks:

Rich "The Main Judge" decreed the French scored a minor victory on their left flank, the center was a major win for the Prussians and the right was a draw. Thus, a Prussian win.

L'affair Pegasus was adapted from the British glider and commando attack on The Pegasus Bridge of 6 June, 1944 as depicted in the motion picture, The Longest Day.

Each game sector played at its own speed. The Pegasus Zone moved faster than players in the Center and Right. This did not matter and it helped keep everyone busy. No waiting for others to catch up.

When soldiers entered a different zone, they entered time and turns of the entered zone.

Left (Pegasus) Zone participants were Prussians Earl and Curt versus French Mike and Chuck. A big free for all with lots of maneuver and surprises. This was mostly an affair of light troops.

Center Zone participants were Prussians Rich, George and Derrick opposed by John the Russian and Chris the Swiss, etc. etc. A classic linear battle between two brigades per side.

Western Zone participants were Prussians Jim and Keith battling French Randy and Don. A combination linear and light troop battle.

Game Start: 11:00am.

Lunch: 1:00pm

Game Finish: 5:15pm

Miniatures: Almost 2,000 and we reached a conclusion.

Everyone brought a small beverage or snack to share. Sloppy Joe's were provided by the host.

This was the first and hopefully not the last time we had a portion of snacks as healthy stuff; veggies and dip brought by John. Chris brought grapes in the form of two bottles of wine. Then there were "Donna cookies" scratch made by Keith's wife. And and and....

Rules: {BAR} Batailles de l'Ancien Régime (1740-1763) linked in the upper left of this blog.

Der Alte Fritz took photos of the Western Zone on and near the Protzen Heights. May I recommend you to his blog when he hopefully posts photos and remarks there?

Comments welcome next. Remarks from participants welcome for a different view and?

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